Trading start-up clicking for what sounds like a power neuter job and a "shudder" is nuts. Ford then released two further customer satisfaction programs as an extension of coverage. Automated page speed optimizations for fast site performance, Benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, Improving performance and fuel efficiency. When there are problems with the transmission, it can cause the engine to shudder. If a car is not regularly maintained, it can lead to problems such as the engine shudder 21N08 issue. Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10 was an extended warranty coverage on engine cam phasers on vehicles that had received a PCM reflash prior to December 31, 2021. That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. Im getting a better understanding on this, now. But, this process cant be run in an unauthorized way. Advertising - It is difficult for me to get a price right now on the PCM reprogramming since it is still under warranty for a few more weeks, so most front-desk service advisors dont have pricing. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Recall letters were mailed to each affected vehicle owner On September 27, 2021. Two versions of PCM calibrations - the regular one (21B10) and one for if you experience engine shudders with the regular one (21B10S2). This new customer satisfaction program is designed to reverse engine shudder caused by this previous PCM calibration. Check with your dealer to see if your vehicle is eligible and make an appointment for service. 5.7 Hemi Lifter Failure Symptoms Causes & Fixes, Lomax Tonneau Cover problems & troubleshooting, Truxedo Sentry CT Problems & Troubleshooting, UnderCover Armor Flex Problems & Troubleshooting, Retrax Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting, Peragon Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The good news is that replacing the cam phasers will fix the cold start rattle. So, it is certainly very uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the drivers and passengers. 2015 - 2020 Ford F150 - Are CSP's only performed as needed? So far, these recalls have been effective at solving the problem and improving customer satisfaction. Until I get some specifics on what the reprograms do, I'm holding off. Cookie Policy - Hey! No matter what the cause of your engine shudder may be, its always best to err on the side of caution and get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. Has Ford corrected the Cam Phaser rattle in Gen3? JavaScript is disabled. Your email address will not be published. The problem stems from the fact that these vehicles are equipped with an engine control module (ECM) that can fail due to a software error. One potential cause of engine shudder is an issue with the PCM, or powertrain control module. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. I hope that you find everything you need on our website and that we can help guide you through all your automotive needs. This is outlined in the letter Ford sent to us 2018-2020 Expy owners . The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. Sep 13, 2021. This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. The situation is really bad with Ford now. Good thing I bought the extended warranty. The first software update was performed on my 2018 three weeks ago and did not solve the issue. Plenty of better engineered options out there. The dealer will reflash the powertrain control module (PCM) with new software to fix the problem. make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. If youre experiencing engine shudder in your Ford vehicle, please bring it to your nearest dealership or service center so we can take a look and get it fixed up for you as soon as possible. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder". Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. I asked them to let me know if the Cam Phaser Rattle recall had ever been done to the vehicle and when I picked it up, they told me they did "RECALL 210B10" and the work order stated "210B10D Reprogram PCM to the latest level". . I now have 85k miles. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend. The recall does not mean there is anything wrong with the vehicle, its a software update to prevent a phaser rattle noise from developing. My truck has 8600 miles on it currently. If your engine does stall unexpectedly, try to pull over to a safe location before attempting to restart it. Can the engine shudder 21N08 issue be fixed without reprogramming the PCM? This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Be aware that your cam phaser rattle may return. In some cases, a little bit of harmless vibrations is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. 10,492. A manufacturer customer satisfaction program is a voluntary initiative undertaken by a company to improve customer satisfaction. Just noticed a shudder after the truck was serviced last weekend. So i guess every 30k miles i am looking at $1200 bill..crazy this is not covered under warranty!!! Ford is offering a no-cost repair to reprogram the PCM on these vehicles suffering from engine shudder following the previous 21B10 update. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. 21B10 will be the first thing a Ford dealer would do. Ford TSB 21N08 Make: Ford Number: 21N08 Date: 10/29/2021 Title: PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder Summary: In a very low percentage of the affected vehicles, an engine shudder may develop after receiving the PCM update provided in program 21B10. I have a new to me 2017 SCREW that I purchased about a month ago. Location. Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans . - Anyone have any information regarding the new recall notice I just received in the Ford App. . If you know how to fix it cheaply, then you might be able to get yourself a deal. More importantly, this recall is supposed to help extend the life of the cam phasers as demonstrated by their extended warranty coverage for vehicles that received this PCM reprogram prior to February 2022. Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. Reprogram the PCM using the latest software level of the appropriate Ford . If the rpm is above 16-1800 it drives smooth as can be. Honestly? Cam phaser requires extensive effort and should only be attempted by those who are comfortable with working on cars. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Terms of Service - The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. This repair is a one-time thing and is only offered until Janurary 1st, 2023. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. My name is Zachary Drumm! If the Carfax shows that the vehicle that you are looking at buying has already received the 21B10, then you may need to take it in for the 21NO8 reflash to revert those settings. If you own one of these affected vehicles, you should take it to your local dealership as soon as possible to have the ECM reprogrammed. The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is..If you were in my position, would you pull the . Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. Reboot. Ill try to update this report in 2023 as this customer satisfaction bulletin expires. Because of this issue, your engine may shake or shudder. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. UPDATE: So I talked to Ford customer service today. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. Your car should also be outside of its warranty in order to keep from voiding a warranty on your car. 5. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. Symptoms of a bad cam phaser include a loud engine rattle or tick when the engine is running, a check engine light, and stalling at a red light. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); We use cookies to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. So you need to verify with your dealership with your VIN that the recall repairs have been done. '22 camera issue made worse by dealer and others issues not resolved. The 21N08 update is pretty new like just a couple of weeks old, so I do not know if that will fix the engine shudder or the cold start rattle. The PCM reprogramming process can help to prevent the engine shudder 21N08 issue from recurring in the future. It is important to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue to maintain the performance and safety of the vehicle. I had 21B10 done last week on my '19. . If the PCM software is incorrect or outdated, it can cause the engine to shudder or shake. The transmission is responsible for transmitting power from the engine to the wheels. Yesterday drove the truck from NY to Maine and all through the traffic out of NY truck had a strong vibration right around 1000 rpm and would settle at a full stop. Customer Satisfaction Program 21N08 Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder LABOR ALLOWANCES Description Labor Operation Labor Time Test drive to verify engine shudder and reprogram PCM to last revision. I an having the same issues with my 2013 f150 ecoboost 116k started about 6 months ago. Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index148/. I got it too. In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. This is a free service and should only take about an hour or so to complete. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. Since we know what these issues are, you are safe to buy one of these Ford models. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. That said, after some pressuring, I had a Ford technician told me that it would likely cost around $300 to run the reprogramming on your PCM if you were to bring it in outside of warranty. They will uninstall and re-install the program using specialized equipment and software. Oh ok perhaps a good point. Fords are equipped with an adaptive shift feature where the computer learns to adjust the shifting for a smoother ride based on the drivers habits. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received the 21B10 flash. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. Both will appear on the carfax of every affected VIN, which includes 2017 to early 2020 models. . If your cam phasers are not noisy, don't fix stuff that isn't broken, obviously the earlier PCM upgrade was done that extends your warranty to 70000 miles and prorates beyond that, you don't have the shudder so not needed the 108 flash. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. Even with these known issues, the Ford F150 has an annual maintenance cost estimate of about $858 per year. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. When this happens, the engine can stall without warning and the vehicle may not be able to be restarted. I read somewhere that adding an octane booster for a couple of tanks will help. If your Ford car or truck is experiencing engine shudder, it could be the result of a variety of different issues. Originally, I understood the engine shudder to be a miscommunication between the camshaft position sensor and the PCM. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. These effected models include: This vehicle repair also covers the Ford Raptor and Limited F150 variants. Its usually most noticeable at idle, but can also be felt when accelerating. By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. In some cases, the PCM may need to be reprogrammed in order to fix the problem. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) needs to have been first reprogrammed under the earlier customer satisfaction program 21B10. The affected vehicle exhibits a very noticeable shudder, and can be pretty concerning. Generally, the timing chain, chain tensioners and water pump will be replaced at the same time, driving costs up to about $3,000. Advertising - Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder . Gotcha. 2. If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. Just extended the coverage. Calling the dealer when I get back and having it looked at thanks for this info. @Stevec1129 I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I'm really hoping this new recall I see for my truck fixes the issue. Contact Us - This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, such as replacing transmission components or performing other repairs, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. develop an undesirable noise. At Ford Motor Company, we take vehicle safety and quality very seriously. So far, the results are positive. Theyll be able to determine if the problem is due to a faulty PCM and can reprogram it accordingly. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. This makes it easy for them to compare symptoms, find solutions and unlock the best-hidden features in their trucks. You must log in or register to reply here. These guys are simply trying to Band-Aid a crap design. Contact Us - As I read it (not saying I'm right), If you DON'T do the updates, I think Ford will not cover it in the future. This is the PCM update to prevent cam phaser rattle and will erase your tune. 21N08 is for those with engine shudders. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. Terms of Service - JavaScript is disabled. Engine. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. I am actually looking to buy my first F150 3.5L EcoBoost, as a used truck, but have seen a lot of posts regarding the. 21N08 update, So I do not know if should pull the trigger or not. Privacy Statement - States PCM reprogram due to engine shudder, is this anyway related to 21B03. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. Hey all, I am looking to buy my first full size truck and very interested in a used F-150 3.5L EcoBoost, all because of being good in gas consumption and the amazing towing capability. Engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt in the vehicle's engine, and it is usually caused by an imbalance . I'm assuming this is like a TSB. What is this all about? Pcv Valve Ford 4.2 Liter V6 Engine Diagram . I called my dealership this morning and they said there was nothing to be done to the vehicle. Summary of Related Cam Phaser Rattle Recalls: How Much Does Cam Phaser Replacement Out Of Warranty Cost? In some cases, this can lead to a crash. If your Ford Raptor is experiencing engine shudder, you may need to have the PCM reprogrammed. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. Any shop with an IDS scan tool will be able to check your car for transmission codes. Sounds good to me. Thanks! If youre experiencing engine shudder, the first thing you should do is take your vehicle to a Ford dealership or authorized service center for diagnosis. The truck seems to be driving fine, although I did have some cam/crank codes last month and went to dealer where they performed TSB 21-2357 and SSM 48423. Thank you for choosing Ford! I have a 2018, just got the same notice. The goal of a manufacturer customer satisfaction program is to increase customer loyalty and repeat business. Cookie Policy - In some cases, the engine may enter limp mode. I was told by my dealer that any FSA'S that have a "B" in them is a fix they are required to do. I am confused about this. Generally, Fords are extremely reliable vehicles and are cheap to repair. BUT.I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the. Common transmission issues that may contribute to the engine shudder 21N08 issue include low transmission fluid levels, worn transmission components, or a damaged transmission control module. This can be caused by something as simple as a loose spark plug, or something more serious like an issue with the crankshaft or connecting rods. call your dealer and schedule an appointment. Proper maintenance is essential to keep a cars engine and transmission running smoothly. Yep I have been told it just means that Ford is extending the warranty in regards to cam phasers to 75k I believe. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. But what exactly is engine shudder? How can I verify my PCM is extended to 70k? and if so an updated calibration will be applied. Fords brilliant idea was to revert the programming back to the original level. Unfortunately, many users reported a return of the symptoms after the 21B10 reflash. Manage Preferences - Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. I had 21B03 and knock on wood I haven't had any negative side effects like I have read about
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